Note: Click on any team name below to see their specific game-by-game announced attendances.
| Team | # of Home Games | Avg. Attendance | % Change From '09 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Seattle Sounders FC | 11 | 36,154.64 | +19.70% |
| Toronto FC | 10 | 20,509.70 | +1.09% |
| Philadelphia Union | 9 | 20,346.89 | N/A |
| Los Angeles Galaxy | 9 | 20,319.00 | +5.32% |
| New York Red Bulls | 10 | 17,424.90 | +39.54% |
| Houston Dynamo | 10 | 16,877.80 | +8.62% |
| Real Salt Lake | 11 | 16,755.45 | +3.35% |
| Chicago Fire | 9 | 15,485.56 | +18.87% |
| D.C. United | 10 | 14,701.70 | -7.46% |
| Chivas USA | 9 | 14,268.11 | -11.99% |
| Columbus Crew | 10 | 13,984.00 | +6.63% |
| Colorado Rapids | 9 | 13,157.78 | +1.86% |
| New England Revolution | 10 | 11,813.90 | -16.73% |
| FC Dallas | 9 | 10,953.33 | +17.70% |
| Kansas City Wizards | 10 | 10,081.70 | +0.63% |
| San Jose Earthquakes | 9 | 9,508.56 | -15.37% |
| 2010 | 155 games | Average: | 16,595.49 |
| 2009 | 146 games | Average: | 15,504.88 |
| Change | +7.03% |
Other attendance-related items:
- 2009 MLS Attendance #'s
- 2008 MLS Attendance #'s
- MLS Attendance vs. Other American Sports
- MLS Attendance vs. World Soccer Leagues
Posts
222 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 222 Newer› Newest»will this table be continuously updated throughout the year?
You need to add 2 elements to make this table useful:
1) Attendance for same week previous year
2) Attendance for corresponding fixture previous year
That may we have some data that we can manipulate and analyze. Right now, it looks like a press release from Garber's cronies.
matt (NES)
Cheers to Chivas for having a major gain for opening day. If this upward trend continues through the weekend, MLS will have a hugely successful start to the season.
pathetic from dallas
8k.
move the franchise, just ridiculous
I second what Tom from Chicago said, that would make it a much more meaningful post as the season goes on.
This is great! thanks for devoting your time to this, it really is intresting!
how about them Sounders
Dallas needs new owners.. Look the 2 teams down are owned by the same people so its not just the area.
Please keep this going. There are a lot people interested in attendance statistics.
keep up the good work!!
Clubs are communities, franchises are businesses. Football will be percieved as a success in US when supporters start understanding the difference.
Dallas is failing because PHP is in a stupid location. Obvs the owners mad the mistake in showing they are more committed to making money than relationships with fans.
I am from England, and just want to say that the league standard has been improving. From what I can see there are some CLUBS (not franchises) who need to understand that you need to fill the stadium with people for at least 5 matches a season.
Some clubs associate their teams with their communities such as Seattle, but I believe that Dallas, Columbus and Colorado have to look at them carefully. All 3 teams have SSS and all 3 teams have not had healthy attendances for a few years. Averaging less than 14k is not good enough. Hopefully DC and the Revs will get a stadium some time soon and boost their attendances even more!
Thanks for the table!! Its GREAT, just what I was looking for!!
Move FC Dallas to South Florida.
Should be a pretty positive season for attendance stats. NYRB with new stadium should continue to show real positive numbers (maybe not 97% improvements but sold anyway); Seattle keeping its strong numbers up; TFC getting new seats (only 1,400 but if they sell those that is a 7% improvement); New team in Philadelphia which seems to be well recieved/supported); Of the "red" numbers there....Colorado is minimal and Columbus' one game so far is the same game as last year (TFC) but this year the travelling support was way down (add in 1100 more TFC supporters and it equals last year's gate)....so the only real "negative" so far is Dallas and even if they are this negative all year they should be offset by all of the positives.
One more thing about FC Dallas is the area Dallas fans only care about there teams when they are winning. A few years ago the attendence at PHP wasnt that bad but now the team isnt that great nobody cares to go. Also when you raise Ticket Prices and dont fix the team your attendence will drop. My wife and I have been Season ticket holder for the last 3 years and this year are seats almost doubled so we passed this year but still go to the games.
the sounders are doing their thing.i guess seattle is great soccer area
Kansas City and San Jose definitely need bigger stadiums to boost overall attendance, and Dallas should be moved to Atlanta or St. Louis. I'm fine with Toronto and Vancouver being part of the league, but any more Canadian teams would lose the American identity of MLS. I'm pretty sure no other league in the world excepts clubs from another country except France, which has only one club from Monaco.
Nope. The A-League (Australian League) accept one team from New Zealand (Wellington Phoenix).
Please change the black background and white text, its killing my eyes.
Thank You for taking the time to crunch these numbers. Good Job.
Hey moron... ur forgetting the english leagues.... They have clubs from Wales...
well done to philly
Wales is a nation, but not an independent country. Both NZ and Canada (thank goodness) are independent countries. I, for one, am glad that the MLS is multinational. Let's bring in Montreal, too.
These numbers make things look good, but we must be honest with ourselves. The league is up 13.60% because we have a new team (Philly) who contributed 0 to the average in 2009, but a great deal in 2010. We should be looking at the average for the same league members for the two years. When we exclude Philly, the rise in attendance is a much more modest 3.41%. Such modest growth is to be expected because the most successful teams (attendance) tend to be close to filling their stadia and even some of the smaller teams are in the same position. What is really revealing is the club by club analysis from year to year. Are the successful holding up? Are the less successful rising? Who is failing (Dallas anyone)? Thanks for providing these data.
Good news on the attendance front. Even without Philly (didn't play last year), attendance is up 17.40%. That's more like it. Even Dallas started to dig themselves out of the hole of their first game.
The Scottish League has one team from England (Berwick Rangers).
Scotland, like Wales, is not an independent country, though I have hopes that the Scottish may regain their independence in the not too distant future.
it would be great to see more variables as the fellow from chicago mentioned, but otherwise this is great. There are lots of people interested in MLS attendance #'s .
For the record, it is the other way around... Scotland and Wales are countries; not independent nations.
One problem with FC Dallas is that they have such a sweetheart stadium deal, that they can draw like 10,000 fans a game and still make money. Therefore, why move if the team is breaking even (which they still may not manage to do if the attendance doesn't increase). I agree, their stadium is in a ridiculous location--it's literally half-way to Oklahoma from downtown Dallas.
Putting a team in south Florida is a terrible idea. The fans are not committed and that was already tried once without success. A franchise in Atlanta is also a bad idea. Bad fans and not a big soccer area. St. Louis? Not a huge market and it is already crowded with the NFL, NHL and the Cardinals, though they do have more soccer tradition than Atlanta.
Montreal would draw 20k a game easy. Otherwise, I can't think of any other obvious expansion markets after Portland and Vancouver come in next year.
Keep up the great work with the site!
For the record, a country is an independent and self-governing entity. A nation is a set of people who share a common identity. So, a country like Czechoslovakia for example, was composed of two nations, the Czechs and the Slovaks. There are now two seperate countries, the Czech Republic and Slovakia each with only one nation in the country. The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a multinational country. If the Scottish nation were to achieve independence, it would be one country with one nation, i.e. Scotland.
great numbers lets see if we can top 20,000 this year in average
Galaxy over 20,000 a year for the 15th straight year...you have to give it up to LA fans
Dallas, New England, Colorado should not have teams, and if Chivas USA changed its name to LA FC or something that is not CHivas they would average more fans...most fans feel alienated by this team, a cheap rip off of Chivas...and the owner said he was gonna teach the Gringos how to play real football lol....
New England has a good fan base for soccer. If they had a SSS closer to Boston, I'm sure they would draw 15-20k.
RE: country vs. nation, yes you are correct. My bad.
The change from '09 statistic is meaningless at this point, since the season is just starting and everyone is again enjoying footie once more. I agree with one of the first posters: Add columns for like games in previous season.
Union should stay at linc for the first season then go to Chester, NY gots a new stadium, KC and NE need a stadium, SJ needs more seats, good to see SL getting fans now, and fans need to show in Dallas, colorado, and columbus
mutiny and fusion need to come back, and move chivas usa to bay area
KC's attendence has not gone up 19.10%.
Maybe 1.9%
The black background sucks dude.
"As for the stadium, die-hard (not fair-weather) soccer fans are in the Dallas city center; not 45 minutes north in Frisco. No one wants to drive an hour north to see a team lose."
Sorry, this is stupid. If they were "die-hard" they would be willing to drive 45 minutes. And Dallas are undefeated at home for their last 10 or 11 games in a row.
(And I actually do like the black background... keep it.)
(And wow, lots of Anonymous comments. Pick a name, people.)
Great stats but when doing your weekly predictions do you take into consideration on sporting events going on in the city that same day? particularly this period with the NBA playoffs starting this weekend with teams like the Mavs, Nuggets, Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, and Jazz. And of course the recently started NHL playoffs with the Caps, Bruins, Kings, Sharks, Avs, Blackhawks, Flyers, and Devils.
I think you can see decline not only from those teams that have home games, but also the road teams with people skipping an MLS game so they can watch their team that's playing a road playoff game.
"Sorry, this is stupid. If they were "die-hard" they would be willing to drive 45 minutes. And Dallas are undefeated at home for their last 10 or 11 games in a row."
die-hard soccer fans, not FC Dallas fans. I think there is a disconnect between the two w/ the FC Dallas camp.
Their record wasn't so great prior to that. I think that by last year, they had already lost many attendees. (i dont think the stadium experience is one favored by soccer fans either)
The rebranding was a great move. Very Progressive, but they didn't fully leverage the soccer momentum in Dallas, which has an extensive soccer heritage.
You can get from Downtown Dallas to Pizza Hut Park In 20 mins. If you really like something you will drive to it. I agree that they do not promote properly nor make the game day experence that great. They really need a new owners, coach, maybe a big named player, and sponsor. That would help get people there and this is coming from a Season ticket Holder..
sorry, man. it's going to run close to 50 minutes with traffic, and over an hour if you can't afford or don't want to take the tollway (the only way to get there)
with tolls:
http://tinyurl.com/FCTollway
without:
http://tinyurl.com/FCTollfree
it's an alienating location.
I do the drive daily as I live next to Pizza hut park and work in Dallas and yes the Tollways is the only easy way to get there but it takes me 20-30 min to get home at 6pm in traffic and the games are not usually on High traffic days. Also if you can't afford the tolls then you may not need to go to the game since you might buy a $5 hot dog to $10 beer at the game. $6 in tolls there and back is not that bad also since you dont have to pay for parking like every other stadium you might go to. If you really like the sport and or the team you make things happen and go. You cant change where the stadium is located all you can do is just support the team/sport. Just my 2 cents.
What's up with Dallas?
dallas fc suck bro. is a shame such a nice stadium was wasted. the only way they can bring people back is if they bring a big DP player, like henry or raul
Portland Timbers had 15,418 in there first game of the season. That is better then 5 MLS teams and the Timbers are still in the USL.
Everyone needs to stop complaining. MLS attendance is really amazing this season. The league is on pace to break its all time record for attendance. The Sounders have the 9th highest attendance in the world outside of clubs in the top 5 leagues. That is astounding, and thats with a cap on attendance. Kansas City and San Jose are playing in small temp stadiums, and are still both drawing around 10,000 and are improving from last season. Union, TFC, and Galaxy will all pull over 20,000 at the seasons end. TFC has 17,000 on the season ticket waiting list. Chicago, RSL, RBNY, and United have made vast improvements from last season...yes..vast. Houston and Chivas USA provide very strong numbers by world standings, and Houston doesnt even have their own stadium. The crew, rapids, and FC Dallas should do better...but no league is perfect..and by world standars...if your bottom club averages nearly 10,000 thats simply amazing. And New England...needs a stadium. But we are Americans, its not fair to compare MLS to the NFL, MLB, NBA, and NHL. These leagues are 4 of the 6 richest in the world. (With the NFL, MLB, and NBA all being much wealtheir than the 4th place EPL). So give it time folks. Over 18,000 is great, no need to say "its gonna go down", because it may and it may not...but for now..we are on a record pace.
and i know someone will come on here and say "EPL is much wealthier than any American league" and as a soccer fan, I wish it was so...but...its not. The whole world has only 6 soccer clubs worth over 1 billion. The NFL has 19 teams worth over a billion, and MLB and NBA...well...i dont know why, but its a fact, those are the richest leagues...bar none, no questions asked. So lets not try to compare ourselves to the big dogs yet...we are 15 years old...we are doing very well.
anonymous 10:18am - that's an awesome turnout for the Timbers... and a great argument for an open league w/ promotion & relegation!
i'm just excited to see how these numbers change w/ the World Cup, and more DPs. I'd love to see more big international names in MLS teams, but I think we could do at least another year relying on our current star power and continue to grow.
But when Messi scores 4 goals on Arsenal and ESPN SportCenter puts it #3 behind WNBA and an "amazing stick save", you realize that we need the media to acknowledge the sport (and MLS) more.
For a US based network to give precedent to non-American leagues would just be odd. If you lived in England and Ichiro had two home runs in the quarterfinals of the World Baseball Classic would you expect it to trump cricket or rugby?
Nonsense, Dave Clark. I'm a WNBA fan, but I guarantee you more _Americans_ watch Champions League games (especially at this stage, and especially Barca-Arsenal) that WNBA games.
Funny thing about Portland is, that with proper promotion and relegation, would have spent the 2009 in USL-2, having finished dead last in USL-1 the previous season.
if mls real attandancde was 15k i would say great,but mls attandance is a statistical fiction.the real avr. attendance in teams exept seattle is 4k,even in toronto there is 50% non shows.in your statistics you are just telling us how many tickets they sold.i would like you to give us also, if possible, statistics of real attendance, it does not have to be exact,just by eye.perhaps people from mls cities could contribute their estimate,saying how big precentige of the various stadiums were filled by people judging by their own eyes.
4k? hahah what an idiot...ive been to 1 redbull game this year and 2 dc united games...all of them over 18,000...real attendance. no game in mls history has been 4 k hahahah...ur an idiot...go play with your twitter.
I watched Toronto's last home game. The seats were 100% filled with a lot of red stuff. Must have been 50% who were mannequins or something........
I think that this could be the year that mls has it highest attendance af all time. I think we can crack 18,000 per game. Only if dallas and colorado turn it around. You have seattle at 36,000, phila, toronto, galaxy, redbulls and chicagao will average over 20,000 for the season. then you have slat lake, houston, dc and chivas will average above 15,000 for the season. The other bottom feeder has to pick it up. colorado, crew and fc dallas need a DP to sell tickest. they are not soccer cities. They need a big name to sell there games.
lol @ the idiot who said 4k.
Go back to kindergarten and learn to count.
Overall attendance up about 11.6% even without the Union (who did not play last year). A very healthy growth.
By the way, if there were a promotion relegation system in place, the Portland Timbers would have been promoted to MLS the previous year (2nd in league play), then demoted to USL-1, and then promoted to MLS for this year (1st in league play), a year ahead of schedule.
FC Dallas has a huge problem. How are they pulling this kinds of numner only 9,000 in attendance against seattle. it is a shame to show on national TV any game at dallas. They are a joke. Unlees they get a huge name DP it will continue to freefall. I like the mls want soccer stadiums but they drop the ball in this one. The stadium is to far from dallas.
these numbers are great, you should also try to include portland, vancouver and montreal, 1. to show how well the next 3 franchises are supported and 2. to show just how pathetic fcd really is!
You people are funny. The problem is not where the stadium is for FCD. If you guys know anything about the DFW area everything is spread out and its not that hard to get to any of the stadiums. If you are a true fan you will take the extra time to drive to the game. The problem is that they are not a good team and have a coach who doesnt know who to play or who to get. If they had a big name person on the team a kept him around they wouldnt have a attendence problem. If you look at the past numbers since they moved to PHP the attendence wasnt bad. It has dropped the last couple of years since they have sucked and got rid of all the players.
HERE is FCD Attendance record since they started if you see its not about location but how good the teams is.
regular season/playoffs
1996: 16,011
1997: 9,678
1998: 10,948
1999: 12,211
2000: 13,102
2001: 12,574
2002: 13,112
2003: 7,906/missed playoffs
2004: 9,088/missed playoffs
2005: 11,189/10,104
2006: 14,982/15,486
2007: 15,145/12,537
2008: 13,024/missed playoffs
2009: 9,883/missed playoffs
They have been in Frisco since 2005 so people need to just show up a support the team and quit crying about location.
FCD is a disgrace so is New England both teams need to be relocated!!
Union will draw 25-30k in game 2, which ironincally brings the average down, but is still a strong showing. With a statium that holds 18,500 starting with game 3, 20,000 average may be a good goal. After game 1, the owner thought he built a stadium too small. Time will tell though.
What's sad is that Red Bulls had almost 10,000 empty seats on Saturday and would have had more if not for Philly fans in attendance. 18M people and it can only draw 15,600 on a nice day?
14 years of "suck" and the name "Red Bull New York" can deter any franchise. I mean, anyone can have 30K for their first game ever. Actually, the Metro had 50K...so. Expansion teams need to stop being compared to MLS originals.
Note to the moron who says no more canadian teams, because the league will lose their American identity:
Toronto FC has obviously been a poor addition to the league... canadian teams open up a 35 million + viewership base and the team sells out every game. Hmm, maybe we should look to shoehorn teams into american cities that have poor interest in the sport.. (i.e. Colombus / Dallas)
Note: Vancouver & Montreal will sell out every game - guaranteed.
Columbus has a poor interest in the sport? Wow. Don't say that to a Crew fan.
Note: I support Canadian teams and am not the "moron"
Most major sports in North America have crossed borders between Canada & the US(to varying degrees of success) w/out compromising anyones... err ... "identity" as you put it.
I wouldn't even mind one or two MLS teams in Mexico. Why not?
Crew attendance at last home game was 13,000 in driving rain storm the whole game. Nordeck is best.
I have seen R.B.-Philadelphia game on TV and I have seen only 4-5K real attendance,while ticket sale for this game was 15K.Somebody said no MLS franchise ever had 4K in real attendance,watch Colorado,Dallas or Chivas.In Toronto their stadium seats are red color so if you do not watch closely,you may think that those 50% empty seats are the Toronto fans in red colors.
u are a retard...toronto fc only counts scanned tickets....go away u stupid euro snob...man united has red seats too...u better look careful to make sure that you dont miss their 70% empty seats.
see how dumb that sounds. thats how dumb u sound.
FC Dallas has red seats too....
Promotion?Relegation & Grass pitch please. Go Sounders!!!
Typo..sorry... Would like promotion & relegation.
I agree with WileyJ. But where do the teams come from, and where do they go? If it were like that, there would need to be a whole new labor contract, we would have to drop the draft, and Americans are not ready for that.
Grass would be nice.
It seems to me that Canadian teams offer a great growth potential, and as a sounders supporter, I am ready to have some away games that I can travel affordably to.
Anyone know how the West/ East conference will be shuffled up with the new teams?
Two issues with MLS <and don't get me wrong, I have been to Galaxy games and enjoy the time, but consider MLS a "bubble gum" sport compared to NFL, MLB and NBA.
Issue number one - marquis players leaving during midseason to play for their home country thereby missing several games. It makes regular season games illegit. Can't imagine an NBA star missing a month's worth of games to go home and play. This is an embarrassment to MLS.
Issue number 2 - the sponsor advertising on the jersey = sell out. That desperate for advertising revenue? Can you imagine a "Bud" logo on the side of an NFL helmet?
Definition of bubblegum sport .... go to the games and have fun. Sure. But a good portion of the city looking up standings, talking about the game at the watercooler, and making the team a part of the community ... not really. MLS is right there with Arena Football and WNBA, a nice affordable sport to take the family to and watch, but that's it.
I have a couple suggestions I wish the league would consider:
- Get rid of the east / west conferences. MLS took a good step forward when they moved to teams playing every other team once at home and once away. It should now be a single division like every other soccer league in the world.
- Playoffs are an Americanism that I think most of us can live with, but I would prefer getting rid of the playoffs and moving to a league cup like the european leagues, this way winning the league actually means something.
- I hugely agree with the previous post: Honor the international breaks so that international players and their teams are not penalised when they leave to play for their countries.
Let's keep supporting the league and make it the best sporting atmosphere! Congrats Seattle and Toronto! The quality of player will come eventually! :)
I, too, would like to see a single table. We are stuck with the playoff system, so let's make a variant on it. First, make absolutely clear that the MLS league championship is decided in the regular season with every team playing each other home and away. Second, establish a post-season MLS Cup restricted to the top eight teams from the regular season, the winner of which would be the Cup Champion. Sound familiar? Just need to emphasize that they are different trophies.
1.Single Table /2. Corresponding Season w/ Europe 3. Separate League / Cup Champions. & 4. Promotion / Relegation.
These are a must if were to be taken seriously from the rest of the world.
& Consider this when making comparisons to Arena Football or WNBA
Neither can boast surpassing Baseball, (Americas pastime), in city after city for attendance. Much less their first year in a new league. Nor do they transcend or draw attention outside of the USA. Alot of attention for MLS,probably not, I would be willing to bet that the rest of the soccer world is expecting for the U.S. to catch up and in many cases surpass both in club & country. By the shear numbers of population alone were overdue.
What was the talent like in (pick any league)15 years into it's inception? Look at those league's now.
As for sponsors on the uniform, I do believe it's been fairly common for some time now. I'm sure we could find plenty of throwback teams with a sponsor or two. & if it increases the product on the pitch, why not? Fact is it's big business.
The draft & labor issues will sort themselves out as well.
Like it or not MLS is no way even close to being "Bubble Gum".
Sure we need to grow. We will. Because American's are figuring out what the rest of the world has known for quite some time.
'The Beautiful Game" is a spectacle not to be missed.
Sounder Since "74
First of all, all pro teams count the number of tickets sold not the amount of scans. This is a common discussion in American sports, take the Red Sox for example. That 400+ straight sellouts thing is crap. There are empty seats when bad teams come to town but they sold the tix already so it counts. Also, whoever said they don't draw 4k at soccer games didn't go to the New England/Chivas game the other night. You could hear a pin drop in that place. If the Revs were actually in Boston they would do much better because Foxboro is a trek and it's generally a good sports town. If there were even 2,000 people there I would be shocked because I have never seen Gillette Stadium THAT empty for an event. Only one side of seats was even open. The expansion will help but they should focus on improving some of the existing teams first.
First of all, thanks for the great website.
IMHO, MLS, through trial and error, is finding a blueprint to survival and, hopefully, sustained success. It started right with fiscal containment (salary cap), boosted by soccer specific stadiums, and finally, most critically, picking right expansion locales. Like NHL, MLS's has realized picking franchise cities based heavily on TV market size was a misguided blunder. I applaud its decision to expand to vibrant markets, regardless of border/size- Vancouver, and Portland, now Montreal. A healthy league needs financially healthy teams first. I remain weary of Southeast markets-Atlanta, and Florida. The sun and humidity seem to wilt any spectator sports entanglement outside of SEC football.
The San Jose stats were severly skewed last year by a single massive attendance that was a double header with a top friendly match (can't remember which but perhaps it was Real Madrid or something). This carries over into this season which will show them as a large minus, unless they get another 55,000.00 for a single match.
Not a surprise that TFC has a -0.68 in growth of tickets this year, all games have been played in miserable weather while in the media its been nothing but turmoil about the club and its leadership. The new 1400 seats are for regular walk ups only and won't be for season seat holders. My guess is this will keep it free for other MLS supporters to have seats for the mls cup.
Also under the new stand is the Carlsberg beer garden where alot of people hide from the weather and watch the game there standing and drinking.
Left unsaid in the FCD attendance mess is the decision to move to a stadium so isolated from its Latino fan base, largely reachable by a toll road and without public transportation. It would be as popular to Red Bull fans in the boroughs to play a game in Parsippany, NJ.
And speaking of poor locations, when is DCU going to get its new stadium?
The stats in Philadelphia are skewed because they are currently playing at the Eagles' stadium, that has a larger capacity than the one they will use. I guess the league has a business model that will allow it to survive with 16,000 people coming to its games. Remember, this is the USA, and "they" are still trying to shove soccer down our throats. The Beckham experiment was a colossal failure, and the game is still largely ignored.
I hate your website.
lol at the last two comments
@ TorontoFC Fan section 111
You Toronto fans always have excuses for when the maple leaf in BMO is showing. I remember last year when Seattle came in and got a 2-0 lead the crowd was gone in the second half because the "beer and bathroom lines were too long." Seattle is infamous for its rain, and it has done nothing but rain on nearly every gameday in Seattle this year, and yet I'm not seeing a mob of blue seats across the way. So whats the deal? You guys scared of a little water, or is it just that you use the team as an excuse to get drunk, and when they aren't playing well you just leave?
To those dissing TFC attendance, keep in mind that this year weather has been quite horrible and don't forget, we do not have roof. (If you'd travel and support your team you'd know what I mean, but you choose to sit at home instead).
All games have been sold out, even if some do not show up.
Additional seating has been added this year (approx 2K) and yes, approximately 20 thousand waiting for season tickets.
Yes, seats are red and if you pay attention, you'll notice that those "empty" seats fill in once we get our beer ;)
AgentJ - not an excuse, it's a fact (Think Rafa).
Have you been to BMO? Have you watched games this year played there? Once you come here and support your team, then you can have an educated opinion.
@Anonymous no. 1:
My seats, as well as most of them in the lower bowl of Qwest Field, are under the elements. It has rained in all but one home game. I don't think rain a good excuse for letting your maple leaf show.
Also, the numbers above dont show a sell out for Toronto. Thats just what I'm going off of. How do you add seats and have fewer fans per game than last year?
Beer was the story last year too, but I don't remember those people coming back after half time. Guess I'll have to watch the game again.
@Anonymous no.2:
Unfortunately I'm still a poor college student, meaning even season tickets are a big purchase for me. I can't just take a weekend off to go have people throw powerade bottles at me (not that I'd want to go anywhere in Canada east of Vancouver anyway).
That said, I don't understand how seeing the empty seats in person would change anything.
I feel bad for the Revs. New England is a soccer friendly region, but for some reason the Krafts aren't pushing that hard for a soccer specific stadium in the Boston area. It is hard enough to drive down to Foxboro, which is like an hour from Boston, for a Patriots game. They are going to have trouble selling the team and attracting fans if they keep the Revs there. I'd bet anything if they put a stadium in the Boston area, the Revs would be near the top in attendance.
@ManFromTheChair
Yeah, I'm pulling for the Revolution to pull it together
Excluding the new team, Phil, attendance for the league using the same teams that played last year is up only 7.6%. Only four teams did better than this average (Chi, LA, SLC, and Seattle). All the rest are treading water or decreasing. Hope it improves with better weather and a World Cup bump.
the mls is doing much better in attendance this year. The bad thing is the teams like Dallas, new England and rapids are killing our attendance. KC and SJ are playing in a small stadiums and there attendance will pick up ones there stadiums are built. Montreal, Vancuver and Portland will have excellent attendance. dallas, new england, colorado are the worries for the league. by 2015 once KC, Houston, SJ get their new stadiums and the other expansion teams enters the league mls will be around 18,000 per game. so things are getting better. little by little. We need to keep bringing start to the league.
What's going on in Seattle is simply amazing. It'll only get better with Portland & Vancouver in the mix.
Anyone with insight re why Toronto is not selling out? Doesn't it have a huge waiting list for season tickets?
Also what's the cause of Chicago's attendance improvement?
@Last
I don't know for sure about Toronto, but I assume its because they have a season ticket cap, and the single game tickets aren't selling.
As for Chicago, I wish I could say it was because they got rid of Blanco.
As someone who's gone to 3 TFC games this year, they havent had decent weather for any game this year. Yeah it would be nice if everyone was hardcores but there are still a lot of people who shy away from a rainy day.
What's going on in Seattle is simply amazing. It'll only get better with Portland & Vancouver in the mix.
Anyone with insight re why Toronto is not selling out? Doesn't it have a huge waiting list for season tickets?
----
I bet it has something to do with people who got seasons just to sell them at an inflated price. Craigslist is full of them douchebags. MLSE should look hard and long who they are selling season packages to, I for one been on the list for over the year...
I followed the league since 1994 from oversea. I went to two games back in the 90is, at the old Foxboro Stadium and there were a bunch of crowds. What I criticied in your league is that nobody can build a fan base because either you wanna fold this this or move. What about a tradition.I hope the team still get their names in the next five years and not changing it.
I think promotion/relegation couldn´t work in North America. I don´t think a professional team would go down a division. You could do promotion/relegation with the USSF 2nd league but ...... Oh bye the way I think the MLS grown too quickly in the last few years.
For the people who think a promotion/relegation would work in north america, it will never work, ever. I cannot imagine interest in a team dropping faster then it dropping from the first league. Eliminating the playoff format is a even worse idea,it is simply to american and you know what, there is nothing wrong with that. The playoffs help make sure teams have a chance to extend the season and keep the fans in it, personally I believe the league should only allow the top 4 teams in the playoffs, even when they expand to 18 teams. Also, the league needs to start looking more into stadium location, the stadium in Frisco (for dallas) is in a terrible location and not worth driving too most nights for a loss. Get the hunt group out of dallas!
Every time I look at this chart it makes me even more pissed that Robert Kraft (Revs/Pats owner) doesn't put a soccer specific stadium in the Boston area. He is going to lose the team if he doesn't smarten up. New England is a sports crazy region, many kids here play soccer, and he is blowing it by having the Revs play in no man's land Massachusetts.
MLS should change to a single table and have the top four teams qualify for the play off.
@AgentJ
Sounds like we have a good little Seattle - Toronto rivalry developing! :) Now if we could only get an airline to give us great discounts on airfare to Seattle... hmmm.
And yes the beer & bathroom lines can be ridiculous at BMO - so it does take us 5-10 minutes after the start of the halves to get to our seats sometimes.
Sounds like Toronto needs to make major changes to BMO field. If the lines are too long you are losing money my dear friends...they also need to replace the turf. A soccer specific field should be grass. They get MORE then enough fans to warrant these changes. Also, the more seats they can add onto BMO field the more people they will get
^ BMO Field IS GRASS!
$5 million was spent this off season putting in real grass.
^
^He lives in a hole. Don't discriminate.
Love the Chart, it's a great way to follow trends of the league. Here is a simple improvement suggestion:
Since the League has 1 more team than last year, the 2009 comparison to 2010 should match up by percentage of the season complete {rounded to a complete game}, not simply number of games complete.
Reasoning:
Attendance has a natural ebb and flow during the season due to factors such as monthly weather, holidays, school year and vacation season, etc. {For example: MLS often shows a big bump at Independance day} Matching the 2009 and 2010 attendance by percent of season complete {or possibly by 'week' of the season} will match those influences, giving a clearer picture of attendance trends.
Every week that Philly plays, the 2010 season has 0.5 more games at {roughly} the same point as the 2009 season. Therefore, since Philly has played 9 games, the 2010 season should have approximatly (9/2) or 4.5 more games than the 2009 season; for the same % of the season complete.
--Seldon
You act like BMO field has always had grass, if they just got out it calm down.
@Anonymous Toronto Fan
Hrm, at that point i think I'd skip the beer and hold it in. Just me though. I'd rather watch the full 90 then watch 80 properly liquored up and with a comfy bladder.
Well, if I had a chart of teams I hate the most, Toronto would probably fall right behind DC United and right before the Red Bulls (that logo/name sponsorship is a disgrace). once the Timbers join up, every other team will be dropping a spot.
The reasoning behind both Toronto and DC is simple: I as a Seattle fan heard a lot of shit talk about our fans before away games at both locations, and then when they had a chance to show us up neither did it. I went over my disappointment with Toronto already, and then there was the full page ad that DC put out during the bid for the US Open Cup claiming they could get more people to the game in DC than we would in Seattle. They picked up 17,000. Disappointing.
So anyway, that's my story.
@Anonymous Union Fan
They didn't add any more games to the schedule. Last year each team had two opponents that they played three times through the year. So there are the same number of games played.
Ah... I forgot that the league changed the number of matches for individual teams from 2009 to 2010 to keep the same number of matches league wide about level even with the addition of Philly. Thanks for the clarification.
Which makes me wonder... Will the league change how many total matches are played league wide next year with 2 more teams added? Or will they allow that number to increase and simply have each team play the other teams home and away?
-Seldon
Well, Vancouver are promising at least 17 home matches to season ticket holders next year. I assume that means the schedule will extend to 34 games per team, but I guess it could just be 2 friendlies or something.
After all the talk about Dallas being moved they have finally started to put together a crowd of 14,000+. Their average attendance still is not great but it will rise if they continue to bring in decent size crowds. We still have a long way to go... but as an FCD fan I can at least have a little sigh of relief
@forweg
It's almost certainly friendlies. Sounders season tickets have been a package of 18 for each of the last two years, three of which were friendlies. I would assume it'd be the same thing next year.
@Seldon
It will be the same number of games, and some matchups will only happen once a year (I suppose it'd be four teams that would meet once, like DC United only seeing LA, RSL, Dallas, and Colorado once in a year).
mls attendance is doing really good. I think we will hit the 17000 average. You have to think that next year portland and vancunver will have excellent attendance. KC with its new stadium and now montreal. 10 years from now mls will be around 18000-20000 per game. With henry coming things will be much better. Dallas and NE are my only concerns.
Would be great if the chart could add a % column to show the percentage full. I'm pretty sure Toronto is rocking that category.
Seattle is a funny case with their half-a-football stadium arrangement, but if they can keep that going then kudos to them. I don't know anywhere else where that has worked long-term and I worry Vancouver will not be able to emulate.
Montreal will do fine next year as they have a real stadium and will be able to sustain a buzzy atmosphere, en francais no less.
Seattle is sold out all the time - they limit seating to 36k only. The atmosphere is great there, it rivals any live sports experience.
Vacouver's revamped retractable roofed BC stadium is going to be beautiful (better be with >400mil price tag). It'd only open the lower bowl (20K+) for MLS, but that may also change. The stadium is in the heart of downtown with subway station next door. The Whitecap has been a local sports brand since the 70's. I am pretty sure Vancouver will be a very well supported club.
It should be interesting to see how these numbers change once the World Cup ends and people need to get their soccer fix from somewhere else. Hopefully, we'll see increased attendance across the board.
I’m curious as to what the tv ratings will be for tomorrow’s galaxy-sounders game. seems to have a great combination of factors to really give the MLS a nice TV rating….
Donovan and Buddle’s return to the MLS after playing in the world cup, the MLS’ two best markets in terms of fan support, plenty of star power on both sides, a bunch of promos and mentions by ESPN announcers during several world cup matches…
Certainly not going to draw anywhere near the 20 million that the US-Ghana drew, but i think there will be 1.5 to 2 million watching…which is a pretty good number for the MLS.
Thoughts??
Yeah, I think Sunday's game will do fairly well (by MLS standards, obviously we're not talking World Cup ratings here). You couldn't ask for much better timing either - Donovan returning to the States on the Fourth of July.
Should be interesting to see the TV ratings once they're in.
It was nice to see a sell-out crowd of 27,000 last night in LA. Also good to see that a group of Seattle supporters made the trip down for the match.
Seattle enters top 40 - average attendance for club teams in Europe:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Average_attendances_of_European_football_clubs
I would love to see MLS attendance be up 10% throughout the entire year. Think it will happen?
Im excited with the growth of the league and how manangement has been able to withstand pressure to increase substancially the designate player rules. A gradual increase has allowed for homegrown talent to increase. Part two of this process should entail a two headed agenda. Inner city soccer development to target minorities especially latin american players. This will increase talent pool and marketing opportunities for MLS. Suburban and Midwestern state development with specific attainable targets mid to long term strategies.
If there were 21,836 people at BMO Field today, I will eat a Mountie. Attendance inflation at TFC is out of control. There were at least 5,000 empty seats.
attendence numbers are based on tickets sold not # of people in the seats. every sport does it this way and always will.
Chivas USA needs to add a couple big name Mexican players IMO. Someone like Guellermo Franco, Adolfo Bautista, Alberto Medina, or Gerardo Torres would increase the clubs' popularity and credibility among the massive(over 5 million) mexican-american population in LA. Get a couple of these guys and the Chivas will be up towards 20K.
New England needs a SSS close to Boston. Also I think it'd benefit them to add a big name or two...maybe someone from Ireland? Robbie Keane would draw big time interestin in NE, I think.
Kansas City and San Jose need SSS ASAP.
Dallas' attendence is just a joke.
NYRBs are far from their potential, should be interesting to see how much Henry impacts their numbers.
LA Galaxy should be selling out given their star power....Beckham, Donovan, Buddle, Ricketts, Gonzalez, Juninho, Mathis, Lewis, Arena....my gosh.
everyone else looks solid to great.
I do think up 10% through the year will happen. We'll see a world cup bumb in a bunch of places, plus Henry's impact in NY(and everywhere NY goes) will be big.
As much as it SUUUUUUCKS to rely on ESPN for anything, MLS really needs to get some people over to Bristol this week with hookers, blow, or whatever it takes to get the bigwigs there to agree to cover the Henry announcement on Thursday. MLS cannot miss this opportunity to let casual soccer fans know that this is a HUGE deal for soccer in America.
So what exactly is Seattle's secret?
Has anyone else noticed that the original MLS clubs are bringing up the rear of the attendance table? The bottom 6 of this table are all original 1996 clubs. Also 7 of the bottom 8. Of the 9 original clubs in MLS currently, only LA and NY are in the top half. So what gives? Do people tire of soccer after a few years and stop supporting it? Or did MLS simply pick the wrong cities to start with?
Has anyone else noticed that the original MLS clubs are bringing up the rear of the attendance table? The bottom 6 of this table are all original 1996 clubs. Also 7 of the bottom 8. Of the 9 original clubs in MLS currently, only LA and NY are in the top half. So what gives? Do people tire of soccer after a few years and stop supporting it? Or did MLS simply pick the wrong cities to start with?
Gotta give props to the Utah folk...
They have the best, loudest fans in the NBA, great college football fans, and Real Salt Lake seems to be very well supported.
I'm a long time DC United fan and I have to admit that RSL puts the most quality soccer on display, week after week. I live in LA now and I go to Galaxy and Chivas games, and they're just playing kickball out here. RSL really plays the right way... you hear it all the time. "Quality, attractive, beautiful, natural soccer"
Keep supporting our clubs wherever you may be. And keep putting great product on the field like RSL, Seattle and of course... The Screaming Eagles. DCU
some of these newer franchises, like seattle, already had a usl team for yrs that had a strong following, they also dont have a professional basketball, hockey, football, and baseball team. some cities, like chicago and ny even have 2 baseball teams and ny has 2 football teams. so these cities welcome soccer mroe easily since they have less sporting events to choose from to begin with
to Ronald Reagon FC....IMO, folks in those cities tried MLS early on before the quality was up to its current level and wrote it off. I think its time to move clubs that arent supported well....or at least let cities know that thats a possibility. These cities got to start supporting their teams because there are cities that don't have a team that will!
to the last poster....Seattle does have a professional football and baseball team. The seahawks and Mariners. The Sounders average more people per game than the Mariners though(to be fair, the Mariners do play more games and have more total attendence) the only MLS city to do so.
the problem with the mls is that you don´t give the clubs the time to create a fanbase. you move the clubs to others cities so there will be no history. it´s good to have sss in the mls and i hope there will be more. i attended two revs games in the second season and there were bunch of fans. bring the team closer to boston, by the way i hate the new logo of Whitecaps FC and Timbers. I like those of the CREW DC UNITED REVOLUTION TFC. Hope Henry will join the MLS.
i know seattle has a baseball and football team, but no basketball team (though the sonics never shouldve moved to okc, but thats another argument for a diff day lol and no hockey team) so they have 3 of the 5 sports represented. chicago, ny, etc have 5, 6, 7 ,8 teams for these 5 sports, so they have many more professional teams in top leagues to support
Speaking of attendance in relation to other major sports, Toronto FC has more attendance than the Toronto Blue Jays and also more attendance than the Toronto Raptors.
2009-2010 Toronto Raptors: 17,897
2009 2010 Toronto FC: 20,588
2010 Toronto Blue Jays: 19,866
what do you all think NYRB's attendence numbers will be for the rest of this year? RBA holds just over 25K...I'd think Henry puts them over 20K for the remainder of their games with at least some of them being sellouts. I'll say they average just over 20K for the season.
Whats even more interesting is what will henrys presence do for opposing crowds? Will people turn out for him? Obviously not a beckham affect but is it crazy to think he will increase attendance by 5,000?
I was looking at that too, but if you look at NYRB's schedule for the rest of this year, a lot of teams they play on the road are teams that sell out or come pretty close to a sellout regardless. For example, they play at Toronto, at Houston, at LA Galaxy, at Salt Lake, at Kansas City, at Philly. He should make a huge difference in the Red Bull games in Chicago, Dallas, and New England though.
I think he'll have such a great impact for the league and sport in this country overall though. He's doing a bunch of talk shows today that...he'll make spectalar plays which will get on sportscenter. Hopefully he'll get the NYC market, which is both huge and has a huge number of big soccer fans interested in the Red Bulls and MLS.
im glad soccer is bringing in more attendance, but until they have more home games like other sports (which i hope they dont, the season is a good length) and start having higher ticket prices and bigger tv contracts than the other sports teams are still make 100x more than any soccer franchise, not trying to be pessimistic, just facing the facts
MLS needs to institute a rule that bans clubs from having home games on TV unless they meet minimum attendance requirements. It harms the league when they televise a game from Dallas and half the place is empty or KC where it looks like they play at the local junior high soccer field. I know it gets old seeing the same teams time after time but until they can support their teams Dallas, NE, SJ, KC and Colorado should be kept off the air.
"i know seattle has a baseball and football team, but no basketball team so they have 3 of the 5 sports represented. chicago, ny, etc have 5, 6, 7 ,8 teams for these 5 sports, so they have many more professional teams in top leagues to support."
I'm not sure what this argument is about, but Seattle has a population of about 600K. San Jose about 850K (with 2 major teams) LA 3.7M with 7 major teams, Houston 1.9M with 4 major teams, Chicago 2.8M with 5 major teams, NY 8.3M with 7 major teams.
So your proposed ratio (million potential fans/Major sport)yields
Seattle 0.20
San Jose 0.43
LA 0.50
Houston 0.48
Chicago 0.56
NY 1.18
Think before you post
Although I do not know how big of a difference it would make, but you need to include the METRO population. Houston is one of the biggest cities in America when you include Metro. Same thing with Dallas, no one lives there but the metro population is huge.
Also, a local blackout rule would be terrible for growth. the fact these teams HAVE local TV now is a big step for the league, something they cannot afford to lose.
Rainier, your numbers are off. The Seattle-Tacoma MSA has 3.4 million people, and is the15th largest in the US. It's about twice as large as San Jose's MSA.
i agree about local TV. I dont think thats the issue either. Get as many games on TV as you can and use it as an opportunity to promote buying tickets.
I hear you about KC looking pretty shabby, but their image (and attendance #'s) will improve substantially since their new stadium will be ready next year.
Adding Portland, Vancouver, and Montreal will also go a long ways to boosting the overall attendance. Now we wait and see what team twenty will be...
Despite the worst season performance by DC United in a long time, the fans are still loyal to the club. There is space for attendance growth if Chang give us a winning DC United team!
LA is the 2nd largest metropolitan area in the country next to NYC. It DOES NOT have a 3.7mn population. It is actually closer to 12mn.
These are great stats, thanks !
I have seen so many comments about the location of the FC Dallas stadium and how far it is from downtown Dallas as if downtown Dallas is the center of population. This is not the case - the center of population is way north of downtown Dallas. There is no question the stadium is on the northern edge of urban population, but it is surrounded by the some of the fastest growing cities in the entire country.
And all of this talk of moving the club. Listen, besides bringing in someone like Beckham, the best way to get consistent solid attendance is HISTORY. The league would throw away 14 years of slow growth (of legitimacy, not necessarily attendance) and would have to start again somewhere else. With cities with a soccer history like Toronto and Seattle that is fine, but if we ever want a nationwide soccer league, clubs in the south and west will need time to establish themselves for the attendance to come.
Oh, and we could use a star player who sticks around -- every time the team builds a marketing campaign around a player the dude leaves town.
Building history is important I agree, it is also about patience it does not happen over night.
The cities with MLS clubs have enough population to support many different choices of sports teams, the MLS teams just have to be patient.
And MLS overall has a solid system in place to make slower cities stay alive, it may not be the best system but it works for the league overall and we need the league as a whole to be strong and thrive.
There are MANY soccer fans in the US that don't watch the MLS, this bothers me, and MLS will struggle in certain markets for attendance until this is remedied.
Why is Houston below D.C. United on the chart?
going back to my earlier comments about chicago/ny/la bigger cities having more teams:
im from the chicago suburbs, and all my friends dont care for soccer b/c they grew up with the cubs, bulls, bears, hawks, sox (though sox suck haha) and so they follow these teams with history and b/c their parents followed them
a team like portland will do excellent in attendance b/c all they have are a basketball team, i say that b/c i have family in portland who arent soccer fans at all but cant way to go to timbers games next yr and feel a sense of pride that their city has a soccer team when they only have 1 other major team, a basketball team. in a city like chicago u expect your city to be represented in every sport. so if smaller cities get teams these teams will be supported much better since the people in these cities are beyond excited to have another pro sports team in their town, no matter what sport it is
also many soccer fans wont watch the mls until the quality of the legue improves, which will happen over time
I'm a huge MLS fan, and have been for years. Watching an FC Dallas game is painful. What was also disappointing to me was a game in Boston not involving two US teams even, drew 44,000 in Fenway. Why is that? I'll tell you why, because there are a number of "fans" of our great sport in OUR country that do not support the MLS. I'll bet with anyone there are more Arsenal fans in Dallas than FC Dallas supporters. This really grinds my gears, until we get those people supporting MLS teams, and them to realize the MLS is improving in the level of play, teams like FC D will exist, and maybe shouldn't. As a supporter of The Great D.C. United, out attendance is down as well, why? We are having a poor season. The best thing for Dallas would be to win, and win a lot, or move the franchise. The MLS in my opinion has too many teams already, and teams such as Chivas USA, FC D, Colorado, Kansas City, and sometimes even the Revolution, have some really terrible crowds, are a drain on the overall wealth of the MLS, and should be dropped possibly. In these markets noone cares, or even wants to see them. The MLS attendance will improve as soon as American soccer fans start watching american soccer, because currently, they are not.
FC Dallas attendence has only sucked for the last 2 years. Every since they got rid of all the player the fans knew and like. Then they started losing so that didnt help. So now they are starting to win again the crowd is getting better.. Also the teams with the worst attendence average do not have a "big name" player on there team like the ones that are pulling 20k plus people to the games. Like said above people pay more attention to other leagues over the MLS so until they start liking the teams or players that are from here and play here the league wont have 20k attendence avg.
I'd have to say in watching MLS games this summer (as I have been doing for many summers before this one) I think that the quality has clearly improved and that the product is much better than it was, say, 5 or 6 years ago. Good job MLS! Good selections too for expansion.
I'm curious to see where team 20 will be. My money is on another NY team. Why? Because the major overseas talent that is interested in playing in MLS wants to play in NYC. This talent is what draws people to games not only in NYC, but also in other venues. Thus, it is in MLS's interest to place another team in NYC. Rebirth of teh Cosmos? How would a Cosmos-Red Bulls derby be? Friggin amazing.
The only significant problem that I can see with MLS right now is that there is currently no pressence in the SE. Maybe if there is an MLS 2 that is focused on the SE it might work.
I proposed a playoff structure on an ESPN board a while ago that wouldn't MLS 2 out in the could either. Top six teams from MLS 1 and top two teams from MLS 2 compete for the MLS Cup. That way none of the MLS 1 owners fear relegation to MLS 2 which would jeopardize their investments.
part of the problem with attendance is that a lot of teams still dont have rivals. in every other sport your team sells out when it plays its rival no matter how much tix prices are/location of stadium/if your team sucks etc
take the chicago fire for example: in other sports, chicago's main rivals are the cities of st. louis, milwaukee, detroit, and to a lesser extent, cleveland, minneapolis, and cincinnati. None of these cities have an mls team, the only city you could almost consider a rival is kansas city and thats a stretch.
also the 20th team needs to be put in atlanta, im not saying its the best spot, but it needs to be put there b/c there are currently no teams in the SE. you cant ignore a whole chunk of the country like that
The Southeast is a poor market and MLS is wise to stay away from it. How long before San Jose moves.....again?
agreed. no teams in the southeast cuz those good ole boys cant watch that hippie commie foreign crap. too busy watchin nascar!
San Jose will move unless they get a stadium. If the MLS wants to be taken seriously, it needs all its teams to be in SSS or be in a good quality dual use stadium like Seattle is. playing in a dump like RFK or a minor league baseball stadium.
As a avid FCD fan i agree with many of the statements, everytime a great player comes along they ship him out (kenny cooper being the biggest example). The stadium is in a fine location, but it does alienate anyone south of dallas. The biggest factor is winning though, and if we had a great team, people would be willing to make the drive. The team has been horrible for the last couple of years.
All of the teams right now are in great markets and are gaining fans, why in the world would they move them and lose all of the momentum they have gained!? I like all the current teams, and I think after the 20th team is added (hopefully Montreal) the MLS should stop expanding for a couple of years and focus on quality in terms of players, stadiums and fan experience.
Also, rebrand the Kansas City team next year :) the wizards are a terrible name. For any sport.
The southeast is probably the worst part of the country for pro sports, and after folding two florida franchises I think the MLS would think twice before going back down. I think Arizona would be a great place for another team. Large hispanic population and a good amount of money in Phoenix.
I would not have another New York club until they can get over 20,000 for a season, they have serious attendance problems.
One thing I hate about living in the SE (FL) is because of what some of you have posted, it sucks for me! I'm from CA originally so a Galaxy fan. Though I will watch any MLS team play to support ratings and the league as a whole.
I think if they put a team in Atlanta I might be inclined to drive 4-5 hrs to watch a game now and then, I seriously would do it.
MLS is growing, and good points about the 44,000 at a non MLS game however on the flip side that is also a plus, 44k people at a soccer game is just big regardless. As interest grows in the sport as a whole it will only help.
All of us fans just need to spread the word more too, I changed my facebook default image to an MLS team, things like that. I always talk about it on facebook, at work etc....
you guys are right that a team in miami didn't draw more that 10,000 a game for the season but they did boost tv ratings like crazy. and a second NY team would be great since it'd be right in the heart of the city in Queens. The Red Bulls play out in new jersey. With the population NYC has, the two teams would only help each other out. I'll feel more complete with 22 teams that include Atlanta, NYC, and Miami.
What they might try, thinking outside the box in the SE is some place like Savannah or something like that. A city that has no direct major franchise and that of course is just an example.
Orlando might be good also since they have only NBA and would draw from a few places around Orlando.
A few things... first, country is improper you should distinguish between states ie: spain (not the idiosyncratic American kind) and nations ie: catalonia basque galicia.
Second, being from Miami and attending Miami FC games on a regular basis I can tell you there is support - fanatical support. The people who run Miami FC however are utterly incompetent. A well situated SSS would attract at least 15k.
To a certain extent all the big markets need teams, even if they don't do well (Boston Dallas KC) as MLS needs the presence to attract more time from ESPN etc., for that reason Miami, ATL, Montreal should all have teams and only then maybe a second NY team.
I agree all major cities now need teams no matter what. And most importantly (because my opinion means nothing) Don Garber agrees stating NYC, Atlanta, Miami, San Diego, San Antonio and Detroit are the cities the MLS is looking at. Out of all those cities I feel like everyone would have an amazing MLS team besides maybe Detroit.
Detroit would do an outstanding job supporting an MLS team. Far better than Atlanta, or Miami. I think San Diego and San Antonio would also do a great job and a 2nd NYC team would be supported well. People forget Queens is an hour from Harrison, NJ.
Detroit? Are you freakin kiddin ?
what about Minnesota? Minneapolis/St. Paul is one of the few 4-sport cities in the US. Don't they deserve a fifth?
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MN I do agree would likely do well. I don't know about Detroit though.
Love to see another team in FL somewhere.
Detroit is an outstanding sports town and has a very large soccer following. Not sure why all the hating on Detroit. Simply because the media is highlighting the tough times of the auto industry doesn't mean its not a great city with great soccer and sports fans.
A second team from NY? Are you kidding? The Red Bulls are averaging less then 17k. Perhaps a second team in the Seattle area would be more logical. It's way past time that San Jose is relocated, and D.C. United should probably move to Baltimore. Their situation will only get worse, not better. It might be time to relocate Dallas and Kansas City as well. The owners and the fans are failing. The numbers prove the point. Anything under 12k is pathetic. Which brings us to New England........You're next too. Off with their heads!
I would say that while Detroit may have a strong soccer following, it's definately worth a lot of research given that they're bull-dozing 25% of the city because their population is disappearing so fast. They're very poor generally (the people that are left), and I seriously question whether their current teams can afford to stay. I love the Minneapolis idea. To the flamer a few posts back I'll say this : American soccer is growing, and soon we'll be beating you all at your own "national sport". Go Rapids!!!
albino sounder...
KC is a great soccer city as proven by their scrimmage against man u, and recent season ticket sales. Just wait until they get the new stadium next season.
NYC does deserve a second team considering the Red Bulls are in New jersey and it's off limits to any long island resident/ half the city. The city is huge remember and holds a good portion of our population.
New england's attendance will shoot up to near 20k once their owner decides to move the stadium to Somerville, right outside of Boston. They need to stop playing in Gillette, terrible atmosphere.
But I do agree DC United to Baltimore is a solid move.
Drawing fans for a Man U - KC game doesn't mean KC is a great soccer city...it means Man U draws anywhere they go...even KC.
The Detroit area has 5.3 million people....significantly more than a lot of currently MLS markets. They'll probably lose couple hundred thousand people due to the current state of the auto industry. Don't blow it out of proportion, Detroit is and will continue to be one of the largest metro areas and economies in the U.S. An MLS team in Detroit would do great and add not just metro Detroit, but the entire state of Michigan(over 10 million people) into the MLS.
whoever said shit about kc not averaging at least 12k: their stadium only holds 10,385. they r building a new sss. get your facts correct before you run your mouth. also, new england attendance sucks b/c they r playing at gilette stadium which is an hour south of boston, its a shitty location for a stadium and people will drive that far for american football but not for a soccer game. maybe if soccer becomes more popular they will. so please learn the facts before you run your mouth and waste our time
Hopefully my team determines that 2-3pm match times aren't best, and they either stick w/ mornings or evenings. More people come at those times. Chicago Fires acquisitions should really help alot! Good on the Fire!
THose Eurosnob American fans who think they're too good to follow MLS, but jump on the bandwagon of all these EPL clubs really bothers me too. They think it makes them look like knowledgeable fans to bash MLS and wear a Man Utd. jersey everywhere, when really, most of them are nothing but trendy bandwagon jumpers who don't know what they're talking about.
As much as American soccer fans like to rip on MLS, the USMNT would not be where it is today had it not been for the league; there would be no Donovan, Dempsey, Howard, etc. If you don't support MLS, you don't support the growth of American soccer. Someone needs to get that message out to these self-hating US soccer fans who are constantly tooting the horn for the EPL and La Liga, among others.
Im in seattle and I always go cause its always amazing. The ownership has done a really good job at creating an exhilerating gameday experience. That and the DT location are our secrets. you can watch a game on tv, but you cant wave a flag, scream your lungs out, or chant your songs with thousands at home. This is why we are getting so many former EPL fans. It makes it YOUR team and it doesnt matter if the EPL has more "quality". I saw san jose v sounders last night on tv. you could actually hear our away supporters sing "take em all". I love all the teams(cept portland;) ) but i dont know why their ownership isnt trying to help fans get nuts.
San Jose's attendance owes solely to their low capacity; luckily there's a new stadium in the works. Same with KC.
Dallas' problem is that the stadium is in Frisco. Stadiums so far outside the city they supposedly represent only works for NFL teams, since people can plan their Sunday around going to the stadium, tailgaiting, etc. If an MLS game ends at 10 local time, and it's an hour's drive back home, that deters some potential fans. We saw that Boston definitely has fans, but how many of them want to go to Foxboro for a game? Same goes for the Red Bulls, to a lesser extent.
So you are saying that the NFL has real fans since they will travel to see there team play... In Dallas there are 2 major sports teams in "Dallas" the rest are in the Metroplex and Fc Dallas pulls the same amount of Fans when they played at the Cotton Bowl and Southlake Stadium so I wouldnt blame it on being in Frisco. It takes winning and big name players to build fans not stadium location. Im sure the Revs had no problem 3-4 years ago with attendence when they where winning and now they are not doing so well the attendence stinks because its not in Boston. So everyone needs to quit crying about locations and make it out to your local team and support them if you are a true fan. I attend every FC Dallas game rain, sleet, 100 degrees or 30 degrees because I enjoy my local team and support them like everyone else should.
"It's unfortunate that at BMO, they have restrictions for the fans, and in Honduras, it will be like that with no restrictions. So you're gonna have bags of [urine] thrown at you, all types of things to distract us
http://www.mlssoccer.com/matchcenter-preview/tfc-nurse-slim-one-goal-ccl-edge-going-honduras
to the person that said kansas city is a great soccer city because of a friendly match against manchester united really made me laugh. a true soccer city supports there team during matches that count: regular season matches. it shouldnt take one of the biggest teams in the world to come all the way from the U.K. to get the people of Kansas City to watch soccer. and dont bring up the whole "Stadium issue". what does the new stadium seat, 17,000? my club seats 36,000 fans a match which is double that. and we drew over 60,000 in our friendly versus barcelona so please quit trying to pump up kansas city
i wish everyone would quit trying to create derbys by saying the seattle sounders and portland timbers are rivals! they are not rivals! only young bandwaggon sounder fans think that this is a rivalry. and timbers fans just say its a rivalry to attatch there team's name in the same sentence with seattle. Portland has never had the credibility that seattle has had so the just leech there name onto the sounders at any chance. Im only 21 and I know my sounder history. first of all, before people bring up the days of the NASL and the USL, let me state the facts: the timbers and sounders were not the huge heated rivalry that young bandwaggon fans make it out to be! the sounders biggest rivalry BY FAR was with the Vancouver Whitecaps. it was a rival about the United States vs Canada, battle of the border, ect. These two clubs were known for trash talking, physical matches, dirty tackles and so on. So for people who act like they know there sounder history, i dont know why more people arent pumping up the return of the Sounders vs the Whitecaps! Thats the true derby if any, and it always has been. Portland isnt even that relevant. seattle averages over 36,000 fans. the Whitecaps are at around 14,000 season tickes SO FAR. and the timbers are waaay back at around 7,000 season tickets. this isnt even close. but somehow, the timber fans are going to find a way to put there name in the same sentence as seattle. and the new age, knowledgeless sounders fans will be stupid enough to play along and respond back. and secondly: you cant create a derby based on cities. Just because the cities are close does not make them rivals. just because the trailblazers and sonics were rivals doesnt make the sounders and timbers rivals. its just stupid to me. STOP TRYING TO CREATE A DERBY! to me, as of now, the sounders biggest rivalry based on physical matches and yellow/red cards would have to be the LA Galaxy. and if anyone wants to address me or this comment, just call me DonnieSSFC. im up for a friendly debate.
I agree. Portland is minor league and always will be
DonnieSSFC your the biggest idiot. how isnt it a rivalry. why would the ECS make a big deal out of playing portland.. hmmm any ideas??? we just open the sales for the public a couple of days ago. we have the best fans in the US and we will always be Soccer City USA
to the guy who was hating on Detroit, check out this article.
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/commentary-milan-panathinaikos-has-real-meaning-detroit
This Sounder fan thinks of the Portland Timbers as rivals.
Vancouver, of course, is a little bit better of a rival.
I love to say that to Timber fans. It makes them feel like the smallest member of the 3.
DonnieSSFC - You are a punkass stupid little youngster git, who knows next to nothing about the cascadia rivalries.
We were driving up and down NASL I5 corridor in BOTH directions before you were the diseased gleam in your daddies one good eye. Before the ECS. Before the Pod. Before stupid punk-ass "supporter culture". Oh... there was a rivalry.
ivan: You are a stupid punk-ass piece of portscum than I wiped off the bottom of my boot after I used it to KICK YOUR F******* ASS. DonnieSSFC is right. You never could match us on the pitch, and you never will. You will forever be the mistake of a little brother that wishes he could be as cool as the big kids. Now sit down on the sidelines, and SHUT THE HELL UP, while big brother goes toe to toe with the Whitecraps.
whitecraps suck and so do the flounders.... we are soccer city USA and we have the best supporters group in the US... i would like you to see try and kick my ass. you are probably jerking off now cuz you think its cool talking shit. how old are you, i bet like 12 aren't you. win or lose we are there for our team unlike the flounders and whitecraps. where was all the fans for the flounders in the USL days????? no where in sight. and whitecraps cant even fill a 5,000+stadium. we are more superior then shittle and whitecraps. RCTID and fuck shittle
Does Portland have an airport?
ivan - F*** the USL, and F*** the bandwagon Timbers Army. You've got exactly one claim to fame: You fill a couple sections in a tiny minor league stadium for a minor league team. In the summer you've got exactly two things to do in town: smoke crack under one of 100 different bridges, or scrape together $3 worth of quarters nickles and dimes to sniff armpits with other TA rejects, and get high off those fumes. Maybe occasionally you look around and see a few soccer players nobody else wanted, who don't know their head from their assh*le lose to some cleavland allstars or somebody else who couldn't hit the back of a net with a flashlight. If your lucky, your big brothers from up north will hold their breath, roll into town, and whip the sh*t out of you, just so that you can draw more than 10K of your mouth breathers into that pig pen.
And after the wh*pping has been delivered, you can wipe off your chins and congratulate yourselves, that once upon a time you had more fans than somebody else. You MUST do this because otherwise you would have absolutely NOTHING to be proud of.
And oh yeah: 35yfa and counting...
It's no secret that Whitecap fans are more classy than Timber fans when it comes to the Seattle/Vancouver/portland rivalry.
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